L046 Zebs

[grumpyold]

Just to let you guys know, we came very close to getting Zebs on the import list last time around, about 5 years ago, when Frontosa and L168s made it, they made it through all the criteria and were knocked for the fear of wild caught fish being smuggled out of Brazil and sold here, as they were placed on the CITIES list at the same time they were being considered for import here.
There was not a lot of info in there captive breeding at that time, as in numbers being produced.
Now it would be easy with the research being done already and one of the main men that stopped them now on our side, I have asked this before and got the know Al's answering, are we interested in getting them on the list? it will take money and you wont get any discount on Zebs and they will not be that much cheaper, as they will come from Germany and freight from there is a killer and I would think they would have strict and costly conditions for import.

We will need a bit more research and the money side, I want nothing to do with the money, but when it is going the money can go to the person doing the work as they are not going to do it for nothing,

IF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE A STUPID COMENT you know I will remove it.

[grumpyold]

Sorry they will be cheaper and more available, I would think they will be around $500.00 in your local fish shop, as they will be coming in by wholesalers with a Q room.

[CounterStriker]

im all for it, i hope everything goes well, would be fantastic to seem some new fish that are allowed to be imported and hopfully with will help prices drop in general, to make these awsome fish more avaliable to people on tighter budgets

Lee

[ZebraFanatic]

I'm definitely for it also. When you say it'll take $$$ grumpyold, roughly how much are you talking about?

Cheers,

Nick.

[hootie2s]

I would love to have a go at these guys but the costs and risks have made it too much of a gamble for me. I suppose that the idea of having much more genetic diversity for a threatened species woould also be a solid point to work on.

Cost wise is always the issue, what sort of money would it take Bob, maybe a "fund raiser" so to speak to help cover costs would work. Even auctions run through the site with folks who have other species but want Zebs could put some up as a way to raise funds. It has been done on my cichlid site to assist cover site upkeep etc.

Brett

[Plecz]

im In Mate 100%

[gongpleco]

very good to hear, im also in 100%

[meatpie]

what type of research are we talking about? i might be able to make contact to german l046 breeders and dealers as i know some...
i could also get some information about the dam project in the riu xingu. as you might know they are going to destroy the home of the l046(thats at least planned). so it will be important to breed them anyway to keep the species.

[grumpyold]

These are good replies and sensible ones, these types are good questions, keep them coming.

Cost i am not sure at this stage, it depends on how much they want to be paid for there work, remembering that 95% is already done.

German breeders YES as much info as possible, like numbers produced in Europe would help to start with. We will see what info they want.

Just remember a single person has added to the list in the past, the Peacock Gudgeon, so it is do able.

Just to remind any one that wants to donate IF it gets off the ground, any money you donate,
Will not get you a discount on any Zebs
There Will not be refunded if it fails as we will be paying for people's time
the application could Could sit in limbo for a while, with the speed our government moves.

If it comes off you will get Zebs far more available.

It is funny, what is it with Black and White striped fish Frontosa and Zebs, they create a passion in People ??

OH one thing that was throughen up last time by some was. If we import Zebs there investment will go down the drain, so where are the fish they are breeding??. I had them 10 years ago but they were all males DAM.

[gongpleco]

i have a mate that has 8 35000lt water tanks with all pumps just sitting idle( doin nothing) that i can use for a price (small fee) this would be a large investment but prob worth getting a breeding program running for the zebs, i did put this idea forward about breeding arros but didnt get much of a response, but ahy maybe with zebs
just a thought for a breeding program if they ever allow importing

[ZebraFanatic]

It's understandable what you say grumpyold about making donations towards the project but not getting a discount on Zeb's. That's totally cool and expected, as long as at the end of the day they're more accessible. On another note, you mentioned it takes alot of work, I'd take it that it would take a long time if does get passed and goes ahead? Cheers, Nick.

[meatpie]

ok ive done some research.

first of all is only the export of l046 from brasil illegal. in nearly all other countrys is it legal to import even wilcaught l046.(exept australia of course)

the brasilian goverment and the university of sao paulo have a breeding project for the l046 as they are afraid to loose the species if that dam in the riu xingu river will be build one day.
i ve got these links about this project but they are in portuguese. maybe someone can translate it:

http://www.sepaq.pa.gov.br/index.php?q=node/63

http://www.sepaq.pa.gov.br/?q=node/127/

http://buscatextual.cnpq.br/buscatex...?id=K4755892U3

i also found 2 internet communities of german breeders.
one formed a breeding programm itself. im sure i can get some information. just let me know what kind of information.

[Mastodon]

Bob, I respect your obvious passion for these wonderful fish, and I would like to see them legally available in Australia as much as anyone else. Not trying to make a stupid comment, but here goes...
I doubt very much it would happen. Hypancistrus zebra are on Brazil's "banned from export" list. This, coupled with their addition to the CITES endangered species list will be more then enough to put AQIS off adding them to any allowable import list. They're not going to make endangered fish species available to the public, and they definently won't want to involve Australia in the trade of illegally harvested wild caught Zebras.
In the unlikely event it did happen I doubt the price would come down, they're currently commanding high prices overseas and when you transate that into our dollars it means nearly 3 times the price. Then they have to be quarantined, treated, account for losses, out of quarantine and then marked up by the wholesaler game enough to go through risking them all dying in quarantine in the first place! On top of that, if AQIS did put them on the list they'd probably demand some strict condtions, maybe microchipping and certificate similar to Asian Arowana? This will again put the price up...
Cheap Zebras are a good dream to have, just not a realistic one.

A much better goal woud be to work towards something like having a group of other L-Numbers added to the list. Species that are still legal to export from South America, or with a proven history of captive breeding. I believe this would be quite easily attainable with the right campaign and support from the right people

[pnt]

It's always has got to do with supplies and demands , if there's endless supply there will be no more demand, no offence to any one but from my past experience the Shops always interested in getting anything and everything on the list to make quick money on the first couple shipments and they don't care there after,the breeders will be stuck with the babies because why would they want to buy from breeders when they can get them from overseas with a certain discount on quantity,i've seen them all before from Frontosa to L168 to goby cichlid etc... Suplly and Demands my hobby friends.

[Euan]

Just to clarify L46 are NOT on CITES.
A long time ago there was talk of submitting them but it did not proceed.